<finalzone> hello all
<mizmo> hey
<mizmo> who all's around?
<fabsh> i'm there i'm there
<mizmo> #startmeeting
<zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 11 19:05:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
<zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
* schendje is
<mizmo> #rollcall
<fabsh> phew
<mizmo> er
<mizmo> #topic roll call
<fabsh> just got outta the shower
<mizmo> so we have finalzone fabsh schendje 
<mizmo> lol fresh for the meeting
<fabsh> yeah
<fabsh> just back from a run too :)
<mizmo> oh nice :)
* gnokii lurking
<schendje> isn't showering mandatory for design meetings? :S
<fabsh> lol
<fabsh> my hair is dripping all over the place
* fabsh makes a towel turban
* Emichan (~Emichan@40.174-pool-cable-he.sccoast.net) has joined #fedora-design
<mizmo> hey Emichan 
<Emichan> hi guys :)
<fabsh> heyho
<mizmo> okie let me dive into topics
<mizmo> #topic Fedora 15 supplemental wallpaper submissions
<mizmo> i think our publicizing it more last week worked
<mizmo> as we've gotten more submissions and more interest
<fabsh> arrgh still need to do that
<mizmo> i had some folks message me on identi.ca & email me too to get help in submitting
<fabsh> will blog about it this week
<mizmo> and some already have theirs posted
<mizmo> sounds good fabsh,
<schendje> excellent :)
<mizmo> ianweller had an action item to advertise on deviant art too
<mizmo> but he's not here today so ill email him for a status update on that
<mizmo> #action mizmo to check in with ianweller on deviant art supplemental wallpaper status
<mizmo> #action fabsh to blog advertise supplemental wallpaper submissions
<mizmo> okay
<mizmo> any other notes / questions on $topic?
<fabsh> thanks for adding the action
<mizmo> npp :)
<mizmo> okay next topic
<mizmo> #topic FUDcon Tempe T-shirt design status update
<mizmo> so we had two action items for this
<mizmo> • Emichan to correct date on T-shirt mockup for Tempe and hand off to
<mizmo> Robyn for printers' estimate
<mizmo> • Schendje/Emichan to blog final t-shirt design for Tempe in Fedora
<mizmo> Design team blog
<mizmo> Emichan, schendje  - where we at?
<schendje> yep
<schendje> im working on it, it'll be out before the end of this week
<mizmo> kk
<mizmo> is the design team blog on planet fedora?
<schendje> Emichan: can you send me the final image?
<schendje> mizmo: hmmm not sure
<Emichan> I've posted the final designs as svg and pdf on the list
<schendje> Emichan: or is it simply the latest one on the list?
<schendje> ah ok :)
<mizmo> it doesn't look like it
<schendje> cool
<fabsh> where is the blog at again?
* rbergeron has the corrected tee shirt design and has a quote and is getting ready to pull the trigger on the order.
<mizmo> i can add it, i had to add the board blog so i can just copy/paste the entry in my .planet
<mizmo> #action mizmo to add design team blog to planet fedora
<Emichan> rbergeron, yay!
<mizmo> #info final fudcon tempe t-shirt design http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-January/003899.html
<mizmo> #info robyn got a quote for the tee shirt order and is ready to order
<mizmo> #info jef is working on the design team blog on the tshirt design
<fabsh> looks absolutely fab
<mizmo> fabsh, lemme look it up one sec
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<mizmo> fabsh, http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/designteam/
<mizmo> #link Fedora Design team blog http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/designteam/
<t2hot> sorry, I'm late
<fabsh> mizmo: thanks!
<mizmo> it's all good t2hot 
* t2hot takes a seat
<fabsh> not much on there yet LOL
<mizmo> so basically we are in good shape for the fudcon tshirt, great job Emichan 
<mizmo> fabsh, yep hehe
<mizmo> not *yet*
<mizmo> okay i though maybe ianweller's tempe print guide would be a good next topic but he couldn' make it today
<mizmo> maybe ill send an email to the list on it
* kylebaker (~kylebaker@nat/redhat/x-kgzjvbrnqvgdrpnl) has left #fedora-design ("Leaving")
* finalzone realized it has been months he blogged
<mizmo> #action mizmo to send an email to the design team list re: ianweller's print design for tempe
* schendje remembers ianweller also wanted to send a mail about the booklet
<mizmo> lol i'll jump his gun and hopefully he can fill in the missing gaps
<mizmo> er
<mizmo> hm 
<mizmo> i think that might have been the wrong expression to use
<mizmo> lol dont think about it too hard
<mizmo> okay next topic
* schendje wouldn't even notice
<mizmo> #topic Fedora RPG
<mizmo> i did a mockup!
<mizmo> i posted it to the list
<mizmo> but i dont think i got any comments :(
<mizmo> maybe i should have blogged it
<fabsh> sorry, i was busy. email is overflowing
<schendje> that one bloke gave a few comments, right?
<mizmo> oh i got some feedback i think from kirk
<mizmo> yep thats right
<schendje> i remember some of them being valid too
<schendje> ah, right, kirk :)
<Emichan> mizmo, didn't you put it up on the image annotation thing as well?
<Emichan> we've got to come up with a name for it ;)
<mizmo> #link Mockup + comments on image annotation app http://jefvanschendel.nl/ImageAnnotation/index.php?i=Fedora_RPG_Startpage_Mockup_1
<mizmo> Emichan, yeppers it's so useful!!!
<t2hot> Sorry, what's 'RPG'????
<mizmo> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-January/003883.html RPG thumbnail sketches
<finalzone> t2hot: Role Playing Game
<mizmo> t2hot, there's a proposal to build an RPG for fedora to make it easier for new contributors to join fedora
<mizmo> and to win prizes! hehe
<t2hot> I thought so .... but that site looks serious.
<t2hot> I mean its cool, ...
<mizmo> t2hot, what do you mean serious? is the logo too serious? the overall design & coloring? serious as in it doesn't look like a game?
<mizmo> if the seriousness isn't appropriate, what would you change?
<mizmo> (this is exactly the type of feedback that's really useful, btw t2hot)
<t2hot> No, the concept ... the spirit behind the site.
<mizmo> the concept is serious?
<fabsh> it has cute pandas
<fabsh> that aint serious
<mizmo> well it has a serious purpose i guess
<schendje> t2hot: "serious" as in, a really big effort, maybe? or "for real"?
<Emichan> and hotdogs
<mizmo> to make it easier to contribute
<fabsh> i like big efforts :D
<t2hot> schendje has it
<fabsh> think big
<t2hot> its not a joke  ... maybe that should describe it better
<schendje> t2hot: it's sort-of official, not just a mockup floating around :)
<t2hot> It will sell ... big time
<mizmo> t2hot, ohhhh yeh it's not a joke
<mizmo> t2hot, it's for a proposal spot is going to make at FUDcon
<mizmo> later this month
<mizmo> the winning proposal(s) will have developers working on them
<t2hot> I see
<t2hot> This one will definitely pull strings
<t2hot> I like it
<t2hot> Well art-wise, I haven't given it a critical look.
<t2hot> So far, Its cool
<mizmo> t2hot, well any feedback you have i think would be great
<mizmo> and if anybody has other ideas please, please jump in :)
<fabsh> i'll have a look at it
<fabsh> i'd like to work on the widget thing when we get to that stage
<mizmo> does anybody have any general ideas / questions on the RPG project?
<mizmo> fabsh, that would be awesome
<mizmo> oh
<Emichan> There's already some good comments on the image, I'll also look over it and give feedback
<mizmo> that reminds me i have to upload your widget mockup to the wiki fabsh 
<mizmo> #action mizmo to add fabsh's widget mockup to the RPG wiki page
<fabsh> ha, yeah. was just a first try. quite dirty
<mizmo> we need some other pages too
<mizmo> i did pencil sketches on some ideas i had for other pages
<mizmo> i think we need more pages too though
<mizmo> the idea i had was to have detail pages for users
<mizmo> detail pages for missions/quests
<mizmo> some missions though are way more work than others
<mizmo> so i added this idea of 'campaigns'
<fabsh> we definitely need content people then
<fabsh> people to write missions etc
<mizmo> well
<Emichan> the page you currently have mocked up is for a logged in user looking at their own character/account, right?
<mizmo> if we want it to be self-sustaining, i think ideally members of each team within fedora would be writing up the missions
<fabsh> once its up and running of course
<mizmo> Emichan, close - a logged in user, on the 'start page'
<fabsh> yeah cool
<mizmo> i think their own account page would have a lot more details
<Emichan> right, a kind of overview page
<mizmo> about their panda/hotdog in particular
<mizmo> exactly
<fabsh> we should ping marketing at some point
<mizmo> #idea maybe some kind of form field design to make it easier to write up a mission?
<Emichan> but we should also have an overview page for people looking at other players characters which should probably emphasize different information.
<mizmo> #idea ping marketing about rpg idea
<mizmo> #idea overview for people looking at other characters/ pages
<mizmo> yeh definitley
<mizmo> like
<mizmo> 'missions & campaigns you share with this person'
<mizmo> maybe a friend system
<fabsh> social! :)
<Emichan> right - and more information about already completed missions and trophies, and less on missions they're about to complete
<schendje> in a few years time, there will be a movie about this
<schendje> "you know what's cooler than a million points? a BILLION points"
<mizmo> lol
<mizmo> #idea profiles of other users need more emphasis on already-completed missions & trophies, less on those that are almost completed
<mizmo> yeh because from what a person has completed, you can get a good feel for what they like to do and where their skills & interests are
<fabsh> we need a definite design for trophies
<Emichan> right, plus people can show off what they've done! it's something to be proud of! :)
<fabsh> like a style guide
<fabsh> like they have for individual games on psn
<fabsh> the ones from dragon age rock, visually
<fabsh> otherwise they'll look all over the place
<Emichan> fabsh++
<t2hot> RPG site is living
* kylebaker (~kylebaker@nat/redhat/x-koyjwafvmzfzfrqo) has joined #fedora-design
<t2hot> Can the site be customized ...themed
<mizmo> #idea need a set of solid trophy designs
<t2hot> add a question mark there please
<mizmo> #idea trophy design style guide
<mizmo> fabsh, that's a fantastic idea
<fabsh> trophy HIG FTW! ;)
<mizmo> t2hot, i thought about that, it's an interesting idea... depending on your character's color the coloring of the website changes to match
<mizmo> like user pages on twitter or identica you can theme it within certain bounds maybe
<t2hot> cool
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<mizmo> any other rpg ideas?
<Emichan> mizmo, t2hot ++
<mizmo> okay we got two more topix
<mizmo> although if anybody wants to work on rpg stuffs please let me know
<mizmo> if it's a matter of not knowing where to start or what to work on im happy to write up some ideas
<fabsh> that sounds good
<mizmo> okay next topic i wanted to do is the anaconda design stuff
<Emichan> put it on the wiki! :)
<mizmo> #topic anaconda ux
<mizmo> #action (mizmo to write up some open tasks on RPG wiki)
<mizmo> so last week i worked on some mockups for the localization / location sections of anaconda
<mizmo> #link start of anaconda UI localization discussion https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2010-December/msg00110.html
<fabsh> btw, is there any reason you can't switch the language on the live cd
<fabsh> ?
<mizmo> fabsh, the live cd only fits english
<mizmo> i think if the other translations were included it wouldn't fit 
<fabsh> that threw me when i tried to install it for my mother over xmas
<mizmo> if we go to a live dvd format i think they would be added back
<fabsh> ah. shame.
<mizmo> sorry about that :(
<fabsh> no worries
<mizmo> we have i think 20+ languages
<fabsh> they could at least include the language switcher app though
<fabsh> trying to find what package to actually install to get a lang is a nightmare
<mizmo> hmm
<mizmo> it would be nice if the language switcher app was there, then you could pick a language and package kit would get hte files you needed
<fabsh> i installed systemconfig-language or whatever its called
<mizmo> fabsh, i think it's totally worth filing a bug on, do you want me to file it?
<fabsh> yeah
<fabsh> i will do it
<fabsh> #action fabsh to file Ananconda bug on language switcher for live cd
<mizmo> okie!
<mizmo> oh i forgot the mockups lol
<fabsh> i did it by hand and now my ma has fedora auf deutsch :)
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<mizmo> #link mockups for anaconda location https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2011-January/msg00111.html
<mizmo> i basically took notting's idea and made it into mocks
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<mizmo> one thing that is tricky about the mocks
<mizmo> is displaying the currently-set option but keeping a clean appearance while letting folks edit the options
<mizmo> so if you page through the mocks you'll see there's on-hover buttons for the various fields
<mizmo> eg
<mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/f/f3/Anaconda-location-4b-1.png <= there's one for "United States"
<mizmo> if you click on it then an overlay dialog appears
<mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/d6/Anaconda-location-4b-2.png
<finalzone> mizmo, is that for live media or dvd?
<mizmo> so that's the general pattern here
<mizmo> finalzone, it'd be for both although it may need some modifications for live media if it doesn't include all the langs
<mizmo> i think we're supposed to be going to live dvd for f15 though
<fabsh> i like the design
<schendje> mizmo: i'm liking the backdrop
<fabsh> you know, I'm warming up to that wallpaper
<mizmo> just a note, i did make these mockups before the wallpaper drama
<fabsh> lol
<fabsh> don't call it a drama
<fabsh> things like that happen
<mizmo> yeh
<finalzone> to be frank, it was time to take a break from wallpapers design to focus elsewhere
<fabsh> we'll sort it out and afterward we'll be stronger for it
<mizmo> i mean
<mizmo> if we focus on anaconda rather than wallpaper
<mizmo> those anaconda changes will make a huge, huge difference for years
<mizmo> the wallpaper only lasts 6 months..
<mizmo> finalzone, fabsh ++
<finalzone> I learn more with anaconda UX redesign
<mizmo> finalzone, would you be interested in reviewing the location mockups for me?
<mizmo> just walk through them and let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if you have any ideas / suggestions?
<finalzone> mizmo, sure
<fabsh> ok
<mizmo> awesome :)
<mizmo> #action finalzone to review anaconda location mockups https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/UX_Redesign/Anaconda_Location#Mockups
<t2hot> Can I look at those too?
<mizmo> t2hot, absolutely that'd be quite helpful!
<mizmo> #action t2hot to review anaconda location mockups
<mizmo> any other ideas / questions on the anaconda ux project?
<mizmo> honestly 
<mizmo> if there is anything at all that bugs you about the fedora install process
<mizmo> now is the time to bring it up!!
<fabsh> ehhh
<mizmo> because we have a chance to fix it with this project
<fabsh> the fact that i have to enter stuff after the install?
<t2hot> can only think of ntp
<mizmo> fabsh, the firstboot screens?
<fabsh> i want to enter it all at the start
<fabsh> yeah
<mizmo> hm
<Emichan> fabsh++
<mizmo> well the reason we have firstboot is for OEMs who ship pre-installed linux machines to customers who should fill out that info
<fabsh> and i want it to start installing while i do that
<fabsh> like the new ubuntu does
<mizmo> but maybe a flag could be set
<fabsh> caldera had that YEARS ago apparently
* finalzone is also thinking about revamping the entire custom install layout (Pirut needs to die for good)
<fabsh> +1 on setting a flag
<mizmo> so by default it asks you the questions up front, but if you put a flag in the ks file it asks firstboot later for OEMs
<fabsh> +a
<fabsh> +1
<t2hot> +1
<mizmo> #idea ask firstboot questions in installer so users can finish all questions at once, have a flag in kickstart to use firstboot for OEMs
<Emichan> sounds great
<mizmo> it would be really hard to maintain as two separate code paths though
<mizmo> im not sure the devel solution for that
<mizmo> but ill talk to the anaconda peeps and see what they think
<fabsh> awesome
<fabsh> you rock! :)
<finalzone> hmm, does flag bring political problem?
<mizmo> #action mizmo to talk to anaconda folks about firstboot drop flag
<mizmo> finalzone, oh it's a different kind of flag, the kind of flag i mean is just setting a variable in a kickstart text file
<mizmo> finalzone, e.g., firstboot=1 or firstboot=0
<fabsh> lol
<mizmo> the non-controversial kind of flag, thankfully
<finalzone> oh ok
<fabsh> will we have an open floor?
<mizmo> well
<mizmo> the next topic is the wallpaper then open floor
<mizmo> but we might as well do open floor for both
<fabsh> i just have a short question
<mizmo> #topic open floor
<fabsh> ok cool
<fabsh> who will be at FOSDEM?
<mizmo> ah you asked me this in identi.ca sorry i missed it!
* mizmo won't be going :(
<fabsh> did i?
<mizmo> yeh
<fabsh> oh :(
* mizmo has cut back on travel bc of upcoming wedding
<jsmith> fabsh: I'll be there :-)
<fabsh> understand
<fabsh> jsmith: ah cool. lets meet up
<jsmith> fabsh: Absolutely!
<fabsh> :)
<mizmo> does anyone have any ideas/sketches for the F15 wallpaper?
<fabsh> ok, i'll write an email to the list about it
* t2hot is blank
<schendje> oh i'll be there too :)
<Emichan> it's on my schedule for this week, but not done yet :)
<schendje> saturday, and maybe sunday
<fabsh> i totally slacked on that after the discussion
<fabsh> schendje: yay!
<schendje> t2hot: how's the mailer design thing going?
<finalzone> no idea for F15 wallpapers at the moment...
<mizmo> kk
<mizmo> #action Emichan working on F15 wallpaper mockup
<t2hot> schendje, inundated with tasks my dear ... haven't come around to it.  Should be done before weekend
<jsmith> I was thinking about a concept, but I have no design skills to save my life
<Emichan> i'm the only one? :(
<mizmo> jsmith, what concept?
<schendje> t2hot: no worries :)
<jsmith> mizmo: Well, two concepts really....
* fabsh peaks ears
* schendje looks funny at fabsh, but also peaks ears
<t2hot> I feel you jsmith ... I might be in the same boat
<jsmith> The first would be a dark round swimming pool with a person breaking the surface, but the pool looking kind of like an eyeball
<jsmith> (for some reason, that sounds a lot creepier when I type it out)
<fabsh> lol
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<jsmith> The other idea was a dark pool of water being sliced by a canoe...
<jsmith> Anyhoo -- crazy ideas, but maybe it'll trigger an idea
<fabsh> dark pool of water? you been reading stephen king? :D
* finalzone has some orders to fulfil for clients. Seems using only FOSS tools do the job
<Emichan> jsmith, the upcoming deadline is just for concepts, so you don't have to have a full, polished wallpaper, you can just sketch something out and present it.
<t2hot> LooooooooooooooooooL
<fabsh> when's the deadline again?
<jsmith> Emichan: You've never seen me sketch!
<mizmo> fabsh, jan 18th
<mizmo> (our next meeting)
<mizmo> #info deadline for wallpaper concepts is our next meeting Jan 18th
<Emichan> jsmith, can't be that bad, surely?
<Emichan> ;)
<fabsh> ok
<mizmo> one thing you do need for concepts is a link to the lovelock idea
<t2hot> Ok, I have this idea of glowing particles/fire-flies forming flower petals on a blue backdrop
<mizmo> i think a sentence or two stating the link
<fabsh> will try to do a concept
<Emichan> fabsh, yay!
<fabsh> lovelock. hmmm. what was the idea there again?
<mizmo> we had a bunch lol
<mizmo> lemme see if i can dig 'em up
<Emichan> t2hot, that sounds interesting, I'd like to see it :)
<fabsh> i want steampunk
<mizmo> hrm
<mizmo> the wiki is down
<fabsh> the lock would probably be interlocking gears for me
<fabsh> ouch
<Emichan> steampunk bomaye!
<fabsh> wikifail?
<mizmo> steampunk could be absolutely be linked to lovelock
<mizmo> i've seen a lot of steampunk art with heavy metal locks
<t2hot> Emichan, thats the problem ... moving from the head to paper
<fabsh> yeah, exactly
<Emichan> t2hot, sure, that's the hardest part!
<fabsh> maybe loads of gears and a vault that slowly opens on a shiny bright blue light
<fabsh> or something
<fabsh> lol
<mizmo> but if you have a textual description of a concept and can get someone else to give you a sketch that's sufficient to meet the deadline requirements
<Emichan> I still like the idea of steampunk wings - I want to do at least one concept based on that
<t2hot> cool then
<mizmo> #info wallpaper concept submissions should include: (1) a short statement linking the concept to the theme 'lovelock' (2) at least once sketch (that can be made by a friend) depicting the concept 
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<mizmo> s/once/one
<fabsh> Emichan: wings? steampunk wings...... cool
<fabsh> Emichan: might try that
<Emichan> mizmo did a couple of sketches I think back when we had our first (and only) "sketching session"
<Emichan> I know mizmo found a bunch of steampunk/wing art on deviant art too as inspiration :)
<fabsh> might look at my old magic the gathering cards, they had loads of steampunk
<mizmo> #link ideas from our sketching session http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-design/2010-12-14/fedora-design.2010-12-14-19.01.html
<mizmo> found them :)
<fabsh> cool will try
<fabsh> have to take off soon
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<fabsh> just before i leave, nothing to do with fedora but if anybody has interest in giving me feedback on an android app I am doing design for, I'd be much obliged
<fabsh> http://wiki.sixgun.org/ponyexpress/ux
<fabsh> will add more mockups soon and I could need some additional designer eyes. it's all free software of course
<Emichan> fabsh, cool! I'll definitely take a look
<fabsh> Emichan: thanks. just email me to fab@sixgun.org if you have any input
<mizmo> fabsh, that's looking really great
<Emichan> fabsh, you might consider adding it to the image note app...
<fabsh> i'm not coding it, but yeah. it's coming along. :)
<fabsh> Emichan: good idea. i have to look at that again. so much to do... :)
<Emichan> fabsh, I feel ya, same here :)
<mizmo> okay i guess we are done for the day
<mizmo> thanks everybody :)
<mizmo> #endmeeting

